Post new topic   Reply to topic    Southern Cross Forum Index -> Guardian
View previous topic :: View next topic  
GavlinRK
Member
Footman



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 11

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

1
Let me start off by saying that i did not want to write this. I'm not the perfect tank, but management asked me to do this.

So i'll keep it simple, things you need, things you dont, and things that may be helpful. Oh and also my rotation for aggro.

Things you need:
2000+ Vitality. That gives you 5 morale per point, 4 tactical mitigation.
800-1000 Might. Gives 4 block, 2 parry, and 2 physical mitigation.
3000 or so Finnes. Reduces the chance your attacks will be block/parry/evaded. Also reduces the
chance your taunts and shouts will be resisted. Side note on finnes. This does
not reduce miss chance.
7000+ Block rating. It help you block, but you knew that Happy
Side note on block. Once you start going over 8.5k or so diminishing returns start
hitting kind of bad. you may be better off stating something else.
5000+ incoming healing. It directly increases every heal you recive, making you alot easier to heal.
7000+ Resistance. do not confuse this with mitigations. this gives you a direct chance to resist a
magical spell or effect such as disease, wound, and all other debuffs.
13000-16000 Mitigations. These directly reduce the amount of damage you take from attacks.
Side note on mitigations. anything over 16k may be a waste as factoring
in raid buffs, scrolls, food. you will hit a cap of 70% mitigation or be
so close the extra 1% or so isnt worth it.

Things you dont need:
Damage and physical mastery. if you think the dps of a guard matters perhaps you
should roll another toon.
Critical. again kind of refer to the reason above. Side note on critical. traiting
the litany cap stone requires you to crit. i dont use that and never have.

Things that may be helpful:
Agility. reduces you chance to miss. by how much per point is not certain to anyone as far as i
know. if you meet all other stat requirment and have room to throw in some agility go
for it. it does help evade and parry ratings some.

Class Traits:
4 blue: Harasser. Enables vexing Blow to become an aoe melee attack and taunt. Frontal
90 degree arc.

Grim Challenge. Reduces the cooldown of your aoe force taunt challenge.
Side note on challenge. It does not generate aggro unless traited for. Also
it breaks Mez.

Threatening Presence. Increases the aggro generated by shield attacks. those
are our main aggro drawing skills.

Shield of Ire. Gives shield taunt 15% more aggro. you should be using this
skill very often. it has a low cooldown, is an aoe taunt, and does not break
Mez or CC.

3 Yellow: Stoic. Viatlity and tactical mitigation. why would you not use this?

Defensive Expertise: Adds Block and Armor, how can you go wrong?

Controlled breathing: Catch a breath recovers more morale and also returns
Power. I like using it but certainly can be swapped for a different
Yellow or a blue to use the litany capstone if you choose.

Legendary: Guardians threat. you generate more threat. if you dont use this why are
you a tank?

Challenge the Darkness. 10 minute cooldown. kind of an oh crap skill
when things go bad. you will grab the aggro of just about everything in
a 12 meter radius for a time.

Shield Smash. Optional. great for a single target aggro and stun at
the end of our block response chain.

Litany capstone. i dont use it. if you like it and think it helps by
all means go for it.

Legendary Item legacies:
Weapon: max melee targets. 5 at cap. now your vexing blow hits 8 targets. great aggro
drawer in your skill rotation. Also increases max targets on whirling retaliation. a
parry response aggro leecher from raid members in a 10 meter radius.

Stamp Cooldown. 30 seconds at max rank. great for helping interrupt more often.

The other weapon legacies are related to damage primarily wich isnt how we draw aggro.


Belt: Threat generation up. if you dont have this at max rank you arent trying to tank.

Catch a breath cool down: i like this as i use that skill quite often but optional.

Catch a breath morale heal: i like it, you may not. its optional.

Challenge targets. max rank 5. grab 5 more baddies when you use your aoe force
taunt.

Most of the other legacies can be useful but nothing in my opinion is make or break. Use your own judgement and play style when deciding the others. dont forget you can always put on a minor legacy of vitality on for 41 more vit at max rank.


Relics: (edit: bob was kind enough to inform me that the store only relics ARE now craftable in game at the relic master.)
True setting of continuance: 250 morale, incpr, and 1300 incoming healing. This is only on
the lotro store so another good option would be Setting of Stability. 260 b/p/e rating
1300 incoming healing, and reduced chance of item wear. (your gear lasts longer without
being repaired.

True gem of king under the mountain: Vitality, block, incombat morale regen. Another store
only one. a good replacement option is Gem of faith. 22 might, 520 block, and 10% extra
partial parry and block mitigation. reducing the damage taken when you dont fully block
or parry and attck. a backup system.

Mysterious rune of mending. Block rating and incoming healing. these are normal relics so
higher the tier you use the better the ratings are. about 500 block and 1k incoming
healing.


Aggro rotation: since we rely alot upon defensive reactions (block and parry) there is no set hit this button then that one. have to play on the fly but i can give you a good idea to work with.

when you dont have to worry about breaking mez or stealing targets you shouldnt always start with challenge. this will give you 10 seconds of forced aggro wich lets you build actual aggro with other skills. use this time to position your mobs facing away from the group and find your own spot to tank. you shouldnt be moving around when tanking unless avoiding a puddle or picking up a mob from a squishy.

Once you have the mobs set can use a vexing blow to taunt up to 8 targets in a frontal arc.
by this time you should have gotten a block reaction. you want to use litany wich grabs aggro and then enables shield taunt after for more aoe aggro. litany and shield taunt do not break mez or CC. litany is 20 seconds cool down while shield taunt is only 10. while litany is on cool down use shield swipe when you get a block reaction then shield taunt again. now when you get a parry reaction you want to use whirling retaliation. this is an aoe attack so dont use by anything CC'd.
as stated earlier this will take some of the threat of other party members within 10 meters and transfer it to you. if you keep alternating these attacks in threat stance you should have no issue keeping aoe aggro on things around you.

Single target aggro: Fray the edge is a nice ranged taunt. Shield blow is a use anytime skill that also draws aggro. for your block reaction chain you will shield swipe, then bash, then shield smash if you have it traited as a legendary. this is the best way to go for single target when you dont want to pull things around you.

Guardians ward. a basic attack the draws no aggro but buffs alot of our defense. you should be using this often in between grabbing aggro to help yourself out and the healers.

Side note on challenge. i never use this beyond the inital pull if i can avoid it. it doesnt generate aggro and should be saved for that o crap moment when a troll mez gets broken and the mini is getting a good taste of his fist.

Engage: what it does and how it works. when you use this skill and it connects it places you at the top of that monsters aggro list. it is not a threat generator but more of a swap. after using this if you then use your taunts you will build aggro from the top of the hate list, as opposed to trying to gain your way up when you dont have any or lost it. this is the most effective way to swap aggro between tanks. tank a who needs to lose aggro stops taunting. tank b uses engage to take the top spot of who the mob would like to attack, and immediatly begins taunting. you are now the main aggro holder and have swapped places with the other tank while not letting the rest of the raid take aggro.



I think i covered most of it. if im missing something or you have a question or comment feel free to post here or ask me in game. i am Gavlin, Haggil, and Kreepin. I have been typing this for about and hour and the servers are still down, so as in my true fashion i rage quit for now twisted
Malandan
Valandan
Member
Master Guardsman

user avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 172

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

1
Good one!

Couple things I can offer...

A legacy I like is Guardians Threat Block, Parry, Evade. If your running in Guardians Threat all the time (and what tank isn't), this helps with the parry and block responses. It is also nice in the fact that if you can't afford to put any points into it, it is still helpful at its base bonus.

My start on rotation is mostly the same on multiple mobs like in Foundry runs, skirms:
Challenge in the midst of the mobs
Position yourself
Litany of Defiance (If this is not available then Vexing blow followed immediatley by Guardians Ward which usually gives you the block/parry response almost immediately, then do your Litany of Defiance)
Sheild Taunt
Whirling Retaliation (usually anytime it is available unless circumstances dictate you don't)

I do a bit of switching with shield skills quite often, when the group starts pounding heavily on a target I will often switch to the DPS Targets target to help keep it there on me. I will often use Fray or if available Sheild Bash...
Blobilo
Member
Freeperson



Joined: 05 Jan 2012
Posts: 5

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

1
A link on the forums recently stated the aggro generated for each of the guardian skills and I have copied it here. Of particular interest is shield-blow, which is a skill that can use without obtaining a block response and generates the most threat of any non- parry or block response skill (with the 5-peice ToO tanking set, it becomes the largest taunt in our arsenal). Additionally and counter-intuitively, the AoE taunts (Litany and Shield Taunt) generate far more threat than the single-target taunts. These skills have longer cool downs between use, but should be used as the primary aggro generation tools, even when fighting a single target.

Fray the Edge: 2800
Vexing Blow: 1500 + Damage
Shield-blow: 2200 + Damage
Shield-blow with Orthanc set: (. Bonuses over the entire 30sec) 2200 + 2400 + Damage
Shield Swipe: 750 + Damage
Bash: 1450 + Damage
Legendary Shield Smash: 2200 + Damage
Litany: 4,000
Shield Taunt: 3450
Challenge (with trait): 500

Citation: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?442988-shield-swipe-bash-Vs-litany-shield-taunt post #7
Andismak
Leader
High Warden



Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 989

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

0
Thank you Gav. This is the sort of thing we need to see on our forums. This will be so helpful for those up and coming tanks ie like my little 64 .

You have put a lot of effort into this and i would like to say well done and thank you. Hugs and kisses Gav you are wonderful.
Isofir
Officer
Sergeant of the Guard

user avatar

Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 113

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

0
Great stuff in thread. I even learned a couple things I had never thought of before.
If no one has any objections, I'd like to move and sticky this thread in the Guardian section.
Aldarionn
Idril_Aldarion
Member
Esquire



Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 40

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

0
I know I don't have a Guard, but couldn't pass by without saying well done to Gav for posting this. He is very humble about his abilities and I know because he's my bud that he didn't want to do this, but I'm so glad he did because I learned a few things too :-)

I agree these are the sorts of posts we need on here, I also enjoyed Aluncards post on the gear, being a relatively new player that was very useful to me.

It would be lovely to see information like this on the other classes because we do have some excellent players out there who really know how to play their toons. I understand we all have different playing styles, and those can also be discussed. Danston was kind enough to introduce me to his rotation for AOE on my Champ, which I took on board and almost duplicated with a few differences to suit my playing style (some may argue I have no playing style wink). I have since learnt how to re-trait for the raid leaders needs. I have a long, long way to go, but it's fun learning, and those of you who know me will remember I was a raid phobe and the most hopeless player in the kin (maybe I still am heehee).

Bob has also started giving me LM lessons too because I learn better that way talking with someone and asking dumb questions rather than reading stuff on wiki etc it's a bit too hi level for a dumb dumb like me. Gav's post was perfectly pitched for me, and I'd love other people to do the same. I am not qualified to give advice, I don't know nearly enough, if I did I would.

To all my kinnies out there who have been so patient and helpful to me I <3 you all, you are like my second family Happy

lots, of <3 Aldie x
Tolbald
Member
Footman



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 20

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

0
Tolbald’s Tidbits

Over-all, well posted Sir!


(Racial or Passive tanking tweaks)

Hobbit – Flop
Elf – Parry
Man – Incoming Heal Rating
Dwarf – Block

Finesse is wonderful for reducing the chance Fray the Edge resist. (IMO, this replaces what used to be the legendary Fray the Edge Cry resist legacy.)

Challenge will not break mez. I am fairly certain Challenge, Challenge the Dark, Fray, Shield Taunt, and Litany will not break mez.

Personally, I have stopped traiting Catch a Breath because if I am really in need of power I can just pop a Power Pot, Thrill of Danger, and Take to Heart.
*Note* prior to RoI, Catch a Breath trait was completely necessary for power on a GRD; nowadays, this is not quite the case.

Other Notes and Tidbits
• ToO 5-piece set: Laingarth
o The added threat to Shield-Blow is wonderfully helpful
 If you have this bonus… Shield-Blow whatever target the DPS is on for decent aggroes
• Shield-Taunt, Litany are great aggroes
• Shield-Smash is decent also if traited


Engage – puts you at the top of the aggro list
• In a swapping scenario (T2 lightning for instance)
o Challenge for the Force Taunt
o Engage for putting yourself to the top of the aggro list

*NOTE*
Challenge the Darkness is an AoE Force Taunt AND Engage


Then the champ (if you have one) can ebb. If the champ ebbs prior to the engage the threat ebbed does no good because the GRD is not at the top of the list. If the GRD is at the top then the ebb comes, the GRD gets a good push above the rest of the raid.

*Last comment* fer now..
Vit, Inc Heal, BpE important
Frostcutyou
Member
Freeperson



Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Posts: 2

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

0
Hmm...any words of wisdom for us Warden tankies?
Theodwin1
Member
Freeperson



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 7

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

0
Overall good post,

One thing that was not addressed was tank rotations, so I'll do what I can to try and adress this.

Firstly guardians do not have a static "best" rotation but rather a rotation of situational priority (like most classes). What I mean by this is that you must approach boss tanking rotations differently to when you're tanking say 5-8 trash mobs.

Basically there are the skills you use when you do not have either a block or parry reactive these include:

Guardian's Ward, Shield Blow, Vexing Blow, Fray the Edge, Sweeping Cut (if vexing on cd and aoe situation) & sting (instant free skill in between auto attacks, more dmg = more threat)

I don't want to get too long-winded with this post so for now I will give you some ideas for general rotations in one situation.



Boss tanking - Single Target;

What most people will do:
Fray the edge (While running) > Challenge > Ward > Vexing > Shield Blow. wait for reactive...



Proactive Tanking: Starting in Block

Let Fly > Fray The Edge > Warrior's Heart/Fort (running in, opens up reactives) > Challenge (when in range) >

LoD > Retaliation > Shield Taunt > Whiring Retaliation > Shield Smash > Vexing > Shield Blow > Ward (avoidance boost or alternatively Pledge for free reactive spam.



Now some of you may be asking but why Theo did you not follow your block and parry chains straight down the line!!!! insanity!!!
With reactives on the guard you have a window in which to hit your skills before they "grey out", therefore alternating between your parry and block lines will give the benefits of working on both and not letting the other grey out while you tunnel vision your block chain.

This also makes lotro's slow combat feel a little bit faster when tanking and slightly more fast paced and give you the perception you're actually doing something.



Now depending on how good (or bad) your hunters/champs/burgs at dps'ing, what you might have to do is 1-2 secs before challenge expires you hit engage (threat copy of person with highest aggro)then following engage activate threat stance.

This will firstly bring you back up to top of aggro 100% (engage) then activating threat stance will provide an extra 28% threat bringing you to 128% and a nice headstart in threat.

If you have semi competent champions, following your engage they can throw ebbing onto you and you can proceed to head to the kitchen and make yourself a cup of peppermint tea.

Once you have returned from the kitchen and put your headset on while sipping your tea, your challenge will be back up again and you can follow your standard rotation.

If you do not like peppermint tea and you want to continue sweating it out tanking, use pledge for easier reactives and threat (if you have not done so already) and also use ignore the pain to open up further reactives.

Following this you just cycle between what I said above (vexing, shield blow, ward, FtE, sting (just after auto attacks) & sweeping (if you're bored) until you get a reactive and faceroll your way to victory.

In summary for this approach instead of waiting for your health to get low to pop your "cooldowns" (which it shouldn't if your healer is worth more than 2 cents)you are using them proactively to give you a clear threat advantage over excellent dps'ers.

If anyone is interested in more of my useless ramplings regarding rotations in varying situations I will post more.

If not, then I will get back to practicing my New Zealand accent and perfecting the correct way to say "Ghost Chips".



Till next time,

Theo ( The real one :P )

P.S. if you do not have good dps'ers in raid just normal rotation + use challenge everytime its off cd will suffice...
Mad Sniffle
Member
Esquire

user avatar

Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 34

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

0
Theo lost aggro to my raven once...he had to work so hard to get it back, his peppermint tea went cold confused

Good points from everyone in this thread, brought me back some nostalgia from when my guard was my main...
Aldarionn
Idril_Aldarion
Member
Esquire



Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 40

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Haggil's guide to tanking

0
Since this post went out and I posted a reply to it I have just rolled out a guard. I have printed out this thread and it is like a little Bible of tanking to me, I'm studying it hard. Thank you again to all who contributed.

Theo, PLEASE if you ever pop on here and read the forums, I would LOVE you to add some more situational rotations to this thread. I healed you a couple of times in some kin skirms etc, and you were a pleasure to heal and an awesome tank, just like my best bud Gav (Haggil). I was really sad you left Lotro and went back to Star Wars

I'll keep checking back.....

<3
Aldie x


_________________
http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/lotro/8/7/0/2/5/87025ktFBD.png
Posts from:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Southern Cross Forum Index -> Guardian All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum