Post new topic   Reply to topic    Southern Cross Forum Index -> Raid Info
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Drizzle
GlobalRemedy
Member
Sergeant of the Guard



Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 108

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
In the past few weeks ive been in several pugged watcher attempts a few turtle raids and was suprised to see a few familiar names. This is good that our members are willing to get out and try stuff on thier own but it did make me wonder if we as a kin shouldnt be doing a little more for them.

Shouldnt we be running these raids (turtle,watcher,DN,and BG) some to get these people in the swing of what it is to raid in lotro? Do we expect them to just one day be ready to go to OD without the practice and gear that comes from running these lower raids? Or do we even want them to show up and crowd in on our rading at some point in the future? I think that the answer is plain to see .. we should be running this stuff some to get some of these people ready to play TOPEND lotro.

Which begs the question of why we arent running some of these to grow our members as we are growing our kin. It certianly isnt the lack of officers we have many .. is it the lack of officers who can run raids or the lack of officers willing to??? I dont know. Is it that those things have all been tried and no one shows up to go?? I dont think thats it, none of those has been scheduled in months (mostly not much of anything scheduled in months)


Currently for august we have two raids on the schedule one OD open sign up and one OD by invitation only, it is only the begining of august. For july we had two OD raids and some birthdays. And we occasionally have a DN early thursday mornings but last few times i showed it didnt happen, but i hear rumors that it does actually still happen some, but never scheduled and mostly silent less your old-school and just know it happens. I think that we have been click-only raiding so long we forgot what it was like to try and offer the raiding experience to all members who could particpate in it. Seemed to start around BG HARDMODE, thats where we became more clickish in our raiding and i dont think we have ever returned to the idea of trying to provide a raiding experience to all our members who would like and can do it.

I know that people here especially Andi hate to hear the C-word or that only the Kool-kids get to go but i think that its worth mentioning, we have issues with click-only raiding here at SC. I do think that we care about the non-kool kids which is why i think with all the officers that we have we can provide at least some raid experiences to the mass's in our kin, we just have to want to...

Im sure that a few will disagree with my assesment and im sure several people will swear that we are not a click-only raid kin and that im an ass who either doesnt know/care or just has some axe to grind, and thats fine. People will think what they want usually but just because they disagree or dont want to see whats up dosent mean we as a kin are still failing to provide raid experience to our vastly growing membership base who werent around when the in-groups were decided.


I took all the initial brunt of the loot system issue and am happy to take the intitial wave of slams over this too, it brought about real discussion and eventually change(havent seen it yet but its coming).

So bring it ..
Drizzle Happy
Divinorum
Divinorum1
Member
Guardsman

user avatar

Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 73

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: RE: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
I agree that we should be running these instances. They are excellent learning experiences for up-an-comers.

I personally have had the issue of posting events on the calender (in a previous kin) only to have no one sign up. I know this can be frustrating, but we have to do it anyways. Some nights we'll be able to run it, some nights we won't.

I think we should always have the current end game raid on Friday and Saturday nights, but there should also be something scheduled just about every other night of the week.

It should be easy enough to implement, just have certain raids the same day each week and then you can quickly populate the entire months calender.


Thanks,

Div


_________________
Anordis
Member
Esquire



Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 39

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
Hey Driz,
there are many times where i come on and its all the officers in OD and thats because no one wants to go. saturday (i think your friday night) OD was canceled due to lack of interest and just not getting the numbers which is a little unfair to those who really want to do it, and bucku and i have sometimes juggled things around so one of us can go (we'd both go, but someone has to watch our 2yr old and 3 yr old) but then it would be canceled due to numbers
We created the sign up sheets so kinnies could sign up to go to give the raid leader a heads up on whos coming and 1 of 2 things will happen, no one will put there name down or they put their name down but dont show up.
We want to get kinnies geared out, its just the question of are they going to show up to do the run so we can gear them out??
As for DN, its the same problem. numbers. I turn up every friday night, my time, and there just isnt the numbers on and therefore its called off and we have never ever said its canceled and then run it anyway because its not fair to others who wanted to go who logged off so im pretty sure the person who was feeding you that information is wrong.
As to your comment about officers should be running things more often. There are Officers who are more than willing to run things, and there are officers like me who dont feel confident to run things. Being an officer dosnt mean you have to run raids, it means you help out where possible. Some people have the leadership skills to run raids and some dont. You shouldnt put pressure on officers that their role is to run raids, cause thats not all we do.
I may be repeating myself, but it only seems like we're a clicky kin as in seeing the same people in raids, and thats because we need to fill the numbers on raids and its always the same people who volenteer to help out. there is no clickyness in the kin.
If everyone signed up for raids, and turned up this post wouldnt exsist.
Malandan
Valandan
Member
Master Guardsman

user avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 172

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
Random Thoughts...

Currently we seem to only be able to run a OD once a week. I dont see any other 65 raids being feasible right now with the new gear coming. And crafted 75 will probably be as good or so close to the the OD gear that it won't matter if you have it or not. Turbine is not gonna make a 75 raid that will require one of the other raid sets to be able to run it, doesnt make sense for their bottom line.

Personally, in my gametime these days I'm just jumping in runs here and there so I don't get rusty on my 65's (too late for the mini), but mostly working my other 4 toons up. A couple of them will be at 50ish for a while, with those I plan to run a few rift raids prior to Isen for the people who get to 50 and the others who have never been. I don't want to do it with a full group of geared up 65's (unless we want to 6 man it). New players won't learn anything running with 11 65's in there.

Honestly, I don't have the time to spend now that I did back in the Rift days to get good at leading another raid. I've barely run any of the new 3 and 6 mans, certainly not enough to lead one of them yet.

This weekend I will be creating some new things for the raider for things we are doing now. I hope to be able to set it up soon to include creep side too. A lot of things have been going on that we are having a lot of fun with, none of them were on the raid calendar.

A clique is a group of people who won't allow someone else to join their little group. I don't think any of the circles of friends here in SC are at all like that. Most of our groups are formed by folks who want to do the same things. And there are some things some of us just don't want to do anymore, we can't help that. We force ourselves sometimes though, CD and Uru for instance.

Saturday night OD is the same ritual that has been going on since I came here, the Saturday night run. If it were posted for signup I bet the same people would still be going every Saturday night.

I don't mean this next statement to sound like I think I know more than anybody else. I've been an officer in LoTRO for a bit over three years now and the same situations we've been discussing seem to cycle through as the content changes or grows stagnant. I was a guild leader in Ultima Online for about the same amount of time, it was the same then.
Drizzle
GlobalRemedy
Member
Sergeant of the Guard



Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 108

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
I agree with Div, just because we didnt get enough one week doesnt mean we cant run it, and untill people are used to logging on to the site checking the schedule and signing up that wont happen either. But to get people to do that there has to regularly be STUFF TO SIGN UP FOR, if you look at our calander and roeraider for say the last 3 months its pretty slim pickings. So untill we really schedule stuff regularly and people are used to seeing stuff to sign up for it wont matter they will never sign up or even get used to the idea.



On another note: i wasnt trying to say every officer should lead raids or imply that we dont have enough raid leaders(although this may be the case). My point was only that with our 15+ active officers that we should be able to manage leaders for more then one raid a week if we cant then we have done the kin a dis-service in our officer selection process.

On another note: The reason the same people show up typically is becasue THEY GOT AN INVITE, see OD raid for aug 6 2011 its by invitation only. Im not pretending that there shouldnt be a selection process but by defenition this is click-ish at best.

And as for DN its never advertised its not on the schedule and hasnt been for months, its never on MotD how were people suppose to know to show up at 3 am us time to go to it.


Drizz
Anordis
Member
Esquire



Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 39

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
On another note: The reason the same people show up typically is becasue THEY GOT AN INVITE, see OD raid for aug 6 2011 its by invitation only. Im not pretending that there shouldnt be a selection process but by defenition this is click-ish at best.

Driz:
I have never gotten an invite for this raid and yet i have gone on it a few times. there is a selection process for a reason, so that the run isnt an epic fail.
you need to get out of your head that there is a click in the kin. as Mal said,

"A clique is a group of people who won't allow someone else to join their little group. I don't think any of the circles of friends here in SC are at all like that. Most of our groups are formed by folks who want to do the same things. And there are some things some of us just don't want to do anymore, we can't help that. We force ourselves sometimes though, CD and Uru for instance."
Drizzle
GlobalRemedy
Member
Sergeant of the Guard



Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 108

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
Anordis wrote:
On another note: The reason the same people show up typically is becasue THEY GOT AN INVITE, see OD raid for aug 6 2011 its by invitation only. Im not pretending that there shouldnt be a selection process but by defenition this is click-ish at best.

Driz:
I have never gotten an invite for this raid and yet i have gone on it a few times. there is a selection process for a reason, so that the run isnt an epic fail.
you need to get out of your head that there is a click in the kin. as Mal said,

"A clique is a group of people who won't allow someone else to join their little group. I don't think any of the circles of friends here in SC are at all like that. Most of our groups are formed by folks who want to do the same things. And there are some things some of us just don't want to do anymore, we can't help that. We force ourselves sometimes though, CD and Uru for instance."



As you showed i said i was not at all implying that there should not be a selection process for OD or some other content, you totally missed my point, IF the one raid that we offer on a scheduled regular basis is BY INVITATION ONLY then that is exactly a clique according to the above quote by mal.

Which is why we should be running some of the other content for our members who dont have the gear or skill to get AN INVITE TO THE BIG DANCE yet, but would like to grow there skill and gear into being able to raid. You took the statement about if we are click-ish or not as the point, it isnt the point ( its fact according to the above premise that since our scheduled raid is invitation only we are click-ish ). The point was that we should be growing our new and new to raiding members into good solid raiders by offering other events besides an invitation only OD raid and sayin to anyone else when your ready to raid we will call you.

Mals other point the one about the gear and levels with upcoming content changing has some validity but if not getting the skill now in dn or bg or whatever, then when and in what instance will we start teaching raiding to our members other then the 20 to 30 to however many it actually is that would currently get an invite to OD (our one scheduled and regular raid).
Isofir
Officer
Sergeant of the Guard

user avatar

Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 113

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
I too would like to see the old raids run again a little more frequently. They are still alot of fun and bringing along the new folks is a great experience for them. I think DN is a great starting place for a new 65 because of the variety of bosses and some good drops... and its still a fun run.

But for OD T2, this is a raid where you have to be raid-ready to go (2nd age weps, max virtues, good armour/jewellry). Even then you can only bring along a very limited number of people that are new to the raid. Last nite we had a successful raid and brought 2 people that had never been. I think thats the way it should be until we get as many as possible the experience.
Andismak
Leader
High Warden



Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 989

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
Well i am sorry i didnt see this sooner guys.

The officers do discuss this sort of thing at their meetings and this topic has come up and we are looking at it.

Before i go on i want to point out Driz has our kin at heart and is trying his best to show us some things he sees that we may not. All good.

We do need to run extra raids, we do need to have the raider full and we do need to encourage people to go to the raider and we do need to keep posting regardless of how many sign up.

Also we do need to consider that at times officers have RL issues to deal with and cant committ and at present this is happening. Now Stan and i have chatted about this and we are looking into it and we will make sure choices will be avaliable for kinnies.

I will post on the raider events/raids as Mal said this has already been discussed and a few more things will be appearing.

When i get more officers or even kin volunteers to run raids i will post them but until that time i am but 1 person.


I love hearing peoples opinions and i love seeing the discussions thanks guys and we can only fix/change/help if it is brought to our attention so thank you Driz.

I dont want anyone who has our kin to heart ever be afraid to discuss stuff. So lets all discuss and help find solutions.


hugs to all Andi Happy
Drizzle
GlobalRemedy
Member
Sergeant of the Guard



Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 108

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Watcher, DN, and BG Oh My

0
Andi is absolutly right. I didnt make this post to imply that anyone is not pulling thier share of the load, Our officer staff is in general Very Responsive and helpful and most would give you the shirt right off thier back if someone needed it, so i was absolutly not trying to call anyone out, was only trying to stir the pot a little so we get some good/intense debate on the current subject.


I (in these forums) sometimes take an adverarial or out side the norm point of view for discussions sake. Its easier to get people to come out with thier feelings/opinions on a subject when some one comes at them from the outside as it were. So please do not anyone take offense at anything ive posted here. i love this kin and our staff and our members immensly or i wouldnt still be here pokeing at what i think are the issues that we can improve on.

That being said i do think that my original main point ( that we should be running more lesser or training raids) is valid and is worth stirring things up a little over.


Thanks

Drizzle
Posts from:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Southern Cross Forum Index -> Raid Info All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum